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Raindoll at 00:35, 14 March 2004

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= Comments for /Kimbery =

Interesting stuff, DS! I will note that while there are always going to be overlaps between demonic spheres of influence, Fastred and Munaxes seem particularly close in nature. Also, why call Loreli the 'Puppet with Cut Strings' if its strings are explicitly intact and uncuttable? - [[Quendalon]]

It may have served as an inspiration- I don't own GoD, but have borrowed it a few times. I don't recall Munaxes in specific though- what's it do? Is it close in nature or style?

As to Loreli's strings, they were cut before. Loreli is a puppet with cut strings- he tried to escape once from the whole demonic hierarchy thing. Kimbery punished him with the the uncuttable strings. Thus, Loreli has both cut and uncut strings. \\
But mostly, it's cause the title sounded cool. Most of the story and all the description came later for all of them- I focused on neat sounding titles first :) - DariusSolluman

I'd recommend purchasing Games of Divinity as something to work from when working on demons. Munaxes is named "The Ravine of Whispers," and she contains every word ever spoken "in a context of iniquity," explicitly including matters of betrayal, treason and treachery. So as you can see there is a rather significant overlap. :)

Also, while this is just my opinion and you are free to disregard it if you wish, I think that 1) we should be keeping description lengths as short as possible for ease of access, especially as any demon may be fleshed out on its own page (see Ekrasios), and 2) we should minimize campaign-idiosyncratic references as much as possible, as it reduces this project's utility if readers have to filter out that sort of stuff. - [[Quendalon]]

Mm. Well, pout. Now I'll have to think of something else for Fastred. :)

And I'd tenetively agree with point 1, and whole heartedly with point 2 below :) I'm just not sure about the border of 'too much description' - DariusSolluman

Brevity is the soul of wit; it should take no more than three sentences to create a strong image of a demon, and whatever remins can be shunted off into a separate page. For Loreli, for instance, "Somwhere within the demon realm is a dome of salt and ash, holding within it a great table, and upon the table sits a tiny Malfeas. The Demons call it Loreli, and behold it in wonder, for the depth and perfection of its detail; it reveals the location of any demon in the realm. Looking upon the table, one feels as though he is falling in, or that the scene is expanding out, to embrace the scene upon which one gazes. Meanwhile a small red child watches, smiling, tied to the table with new, unbreakable strings of brass." You lost some bits of fine data, but the spirit is the same.

As always, Four Willows Weeping eloquently cuts to the heart of the matter. I've little to add on the subject. - [[Quendalon]]

<WaynesWorld>... We're not worthy! We're not worthy!</WaynesWorld> :)\\
More seriously, yah. I do need an editor at times. :) - DariusSolluman

IMO, the term "Willful Children" is a questionable addition to Yozi terminology, as it injects an idiosyncratic view of their opinions of and relations with the gods that may not hold true in other games. - [[Quendalon]]

Or with other demons. However, the whole of a fan based project is, in my eternally humble opinion, to present various takes on the matter at hand. Some of the Yozi and the various Princes of Hell want to destroy Creation. Some want the new order overthrown and to punish the upstart Gods for a thousand thousand years. Some want nothing more than to be free again. Some view the rebellion with benign amusement, all too aware of what will happen when the Incarna get at the Games of Divinity.

Would I expect every Willful Children to be a title applied universally to the Gods? Nope. But would I expect at least some demons to think of the gods as both children and rebels that want without understanding the responcibilities and consequences of that desire being realized- the very definition of willfulness? Yep. :)

Campaign idiosynrchioness would more be 'This is Malfrex, who is Malfaes after Liger was slain by the Perfect Golden Circle on the eve of the Empresses' wedding', or so on. - DariusSolluman

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of the fact that the gods were *made* rather than born. When the electrician installs your new state-of-the-art preprogrammed environmental control system throughout your house, and then the lightbulb leads a revolt and locks you in the basement, are you going to think of the appliances as "children," willful or otherwise? (Note that I do agree with your point about the divergent views on the gods; I'm just objecting to broadcasting a new expression willy-nilly throughout a whole chunk of contributed material, seemingly in an attempt to alter the ongoing discourse. I feel that that's the sort of thing that should go in DariusSollman/TheYozis.)

And on a related note, another campaign idiosyncracy would be to name the Demon City "Malfaes" instead of "Malfeas." ;) - [[Quendalon]]

When I program an AI that is devious enough to overthrow me and start playing bejewelled all day, it will seem rather childish to me. Unexpectedly intelligent child, but child nontheless. :)

Meh. It seems like, once you start restricting ideas in the fashion your suggesting- that is, not to attempt to alter an ongoing discourse -that any new material becomes void. All talk alters the discourse by adding to it- sorta by definition. I could see objecting to posting about fluffy bunny Yozis, because those are substancially divergent- but we've already seen that the imprisioned Primordials have various views on Creation, and so varying the tone and terminology helps illustrate that in a concise fashion.

And *pbbbt*. Leave my spelling out of this. ;) - DariusSolluman

I quite enjoyed the addition of new terminology ("Willful Children," "Great Treason," "True Rulers"). And while some of DariusSolluman's descriptions are longer than most, I never found myself wanting less. :) - [[Raindoll]]

Ululaya reminds me of the warlike aspect of Ishtar, who is a goddess of inversion; some Assyriologists believe that she had a transvestite priesthood. I like. - [[willows]]

Thanks! I hope you post more of your own cool demons soon, that I might compliment you in kind. ;) Btw, what did you think of Aranzahas and Sadagares? And you have two descriptors up for Laerad. - [[Quendalon]]

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-= Comments for[[Creatures/KimberyComments/Kimbery]] =
+= Comments for[[Creatures/Kimbery]] =
 <i>Interesting stuff, DS!  I will note that while there are always going to be overlaps between demonic spheres of influence, Fastred and Munaxes seem particularly close in nature.  Also, why call Loreli the 'Puppet with Cut Strings' if its strings are explicitly intact and uncuttable? - [[Quendalon]]</i>
@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
 <i>As always, Four Willows Weeping eloquently cuts to the heart of the matter.  I've little to add on the subject. - [[Quendalon]]</i>
-<WaynesWorld>... We're not worthy!  We're not worthy![[Creatures/KimberyComments/WaynesWorld]]> :)\\
+<WaynesWorld>... We're not worthy!  We're not worthy![[Creatures/WaynesWorld]]> :)\\
 More seriously, yah.  I do need an editor at times. :) - [[DariusSolluman]]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-= Comments for Creatures/[[KimberyComments/Kimbery]] =
+= Comments for[[Creatures/KimberyComments/Kimbery]] =
 <i>Interesting stuff, DS!  I will note that while there are always going to be overlaps between demonic spheres of influence, Fastred and Munaxes seem particularly close in nature.  Also, why call Loreli the 'Puppet with Cut Strings' if its strings are explicitly intact and uncuttable? - [[Quendalon]]</i>
@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
 <i>As always, Four Willows Weeping eloquently cuts to the heart of the matter.  I've little to add on the subject. - [[Quendalon]]</i>
-<WaynesWorld>... We're not worthy!  We're not worthy!</WaynesWorld> :)\\
+<WaynesWorld>... We're not worthy!  We're not worthy![[Creatures/KimberyComments/WaynesWorld]]> :)\\
 More seriously, yah.  I do need an editor at times. :) - [[DariusSolluman]]
@@ Line 31: / Line 31: @@
 Campaign idiosynrchioness would more be 'This is Malfrex, who is Malfaes after Liger was slain by the Perfect Golden Circle on the eve of the Empresses' wedding', or so on. - [[DariusSolluman]]
-<i>Well, I was thinking more along the lines of the fact that the gods were *made* rather than born.  When the electrician installs your new state-of-the-art preprogrammed environmental control system throughout your house, and then the lightbulb leads a revolt and locks you in the basement, are you going to think of the appliances as "children," willful or otherwise?  (Note that I do agree with your point about the divergent views on the gods; I'm just objecting to broadcasting a new expression willy-nilly throughout a whole chunk of contributed material, seemingly in an attempt to alter the ongoing discourse.  I feel that that's the sort of thing that should go in [[DariusSollmanCreatures/KimberyComments/TheYozis]].)</i>
+<i>Well, I was thinking more along the lines of the fact that the gods were *made* rather than born.  When the electrician installs your new state-of-the-art preprogrammed environmental control system throughout your house, and then the lightbulb leads a revolt and locks you in the basement, are you going to think of the appliances as "children," willful or otherwise?  (Note that I do agree with your point about the divergent views on the gods; I'm just objecting to broadcasting a new expression willy-nilly throughout a whole chunk of contributed material, seemingly in an attempt to alter the ongoing discourse.  I feel that that's the sort of thing that should go in [[DariusSollman/TheYozis]].)</i>
 <i>And on a related note, another campaign idiosyncracy would be to name the Demon City "Malfaes" instead of "Malfeas."  ;) - [[Quendalon]]</i>

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-= Comments for [[/Kimbery]] =
+= Comments for Creatures/[[KimberyComments/Kimbery]] =
 <i>Interesting stuff, DS!  I will note that while there are always going to be overlaps between demonic spheres of influence, Fastred and Munaxes seem particularly close in nature.  Also, why call Loreli the 'Puppet with Cut Strings' if its strings are explicitly intact and uncuttable? - [[Quendalon]]</i>
@@ Line 31: / Line 31: @@
 Campaign idiosynrchioness would more be 'This is Malfrex, who is Malfaes after Liger was slain by the Perfect Golden Circle on the eve of the Empresses' wedding', or so on. - [[DariusSolluman]]
-<i>Well, I was thinking more along the lines of the fact that the gods were *made* rather than born.  When the electrician installs your new state-of-the-art preprogrammed environmental control system throughout your house, and then the lightbulb leads a revolt and locks you in the basement, are you going to think of the appliances as "children," willful or otherwise?  (Note that I do agree with your point about the divergent views on the gods; I'm just objecting to broadcasting a new expression willy-nilly throughout a whole chunk of contributed material, seemingly in an attempt to alter the ongoing discourse.  I feel that that's the sort of thing that should go in [[DariusSollman/TheYozis]].)</i>
+<i>Well, I was thinking more along the lines of the fact that the gods were *made* rather than born.  When the electrician installs your new state-of-the-art preprogrammed environmental control system throughout your house, and then the lightbulb leads a revolt and locks you in the basement, are you going to think of the appliances as "children," willful or otherwise?  (Note that I do agree with your point about the divergent views on the gods; I'm just objecting to broadcasting a new expression willy-nilly throughout a whole chunk of contributed material, seemingly in an attempt to alter the ongoing discourse.  I feel that that's the sort of thing that should go in [[DariusSollmanCreatures/KimberyComments/TheYozis]].)</i>
 <i>And on a related note, another campaign idiosyncracy would be to name the Demon City "Malfaes" instead of "Malfeas."  ;) - [[Quendalon]]</i>

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-= Comments for /Kimbery =
+= Comments for [[/Kimbery]] =
 <i>Interesting stuff, DS!  I will note that while there are always going to be overlaps between demonic spheres of influence, Fastred and Munaxes seem particularly close in nature.  Also, why call Loreli the 'Puppet with Cut Strings' if its strings are explicitly intact and uncuttable? - [[Quendalon]]</i>
-It may have served as an inspiration- I don't own GoD, but have borrowed it a few times.  I don't recall Munaxes in specific though- what's it do?  Is it close in nature or style?
+It may have served as an inspiration- I don't own [[GoD]], but have borrowed it a few times.  I don't recall Munaxes in specific though- what's it do?  Is it close in nature or style?
 As to Loreli's strings, they were cut before.  Loreli is a puppet with cut strings- he tried to escape once from the whole demonic hierarchy thing.  Kimbery punished him with the the uncuttable strings.  Thus, Loreli has both cut and uncut strings. \\
-But mostly, it's cause the title sounded cool.  Most of the story and all the description came later for all of them- I focused on neat sounding titles first :) - DariusSolluman
+But mostly, it's cause the title sounded cool.  Most of the story and all the description came later for all of them- I focused on neat sounding titles first :) - [[DariusSolluman]]
 <i>I'd recommend purchasing Games of Divinity as something to work from when working on demons.  Munaxes is named "The Ravine of Whispers," and she contains every word ever spoken "in a context of iniquity," explicitly including matters of betrayal, treason and treachery.  So as you can see there is a rather significant overlap.  :)</i>
@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 Mm.  Well, pout.  Now I'll have to think of something else for Fastred. :)
-And I'd tenetively agree with point 1, and whole heartedly with point 2 below :)  I'm just not sure about the border of 'too much description' - DariusSolluman
+And I'd tenetively agree with point 1, and whole heartedly with point 2 below :)  I'm just not sure about the border of 'too much description' - [[DariusSolluman]]
 Brevity is the soul of wit; it should take no more than three sentences to create a strong image of a demon, and whatever remins can be shunted off into a separate page.  For Loreli, for instance, "Somwhere within the demon realm is a dome of salt and ash, holding within it a great table, and upon the table sits a tiny Malfeas.  The Demons call it Loreli, and behold it in wonder, for the depth and perfection of its detail; it reveals the location of any demon in the realm.  Looking upon the table, one feels as though he is falling in, or that the scene is expanding out, to embrace the scene upon which one gazes.  Meanwhile a small red child watches, smiling, tied to the table with new, unbreakable strings of brass."  You lost some bits of fine data, but the spirit is the same.
@@ Line 21: / Line 21: @@
 <WaynesWorld>... We're not worthy!  We're not worthy!</WaynesWorld> :)\\
-More seriously, yah.  I do need an editor at times. :) - DariusSolluman
+More seriously, yah.  I do need an editor at times. :) - [[DariusSolluman]]
 <i>IMO, the term "Willful Children" is a questionable addition to Yozi terminology, as it injects an idiosyncratic view of their opinions of and relations with the gods that may not hold true in other games. - [[Quendalon]]</i>
@@ Line 29: / Line 29: @@
 Would I expect every Willful Children to be a title applied universally to the Gods?  Nope.  But would I expect at least some demons to think of the gods as both children and rebels that want without understanding the responcibilities and consequences of that desire being realized- the very definition of willfulness?  Yep. :)
-Campaign idiosynrchioness would more be 'This is Malfrex, who is Malfaes after Liger was slain by the Perfect Golden Circle on the eve of the Empresses' wedding', or so on. - DariusSolluman
+Campaign idiosynrchioness would more be 'This is Malfrex, who is Malfaes after Liger was slain by the Perfect Golden Circle on the eve of the Empresses' wedding', or so on. - [[DariusSolluman]]
-<i>Well, I was thinking more along the lines of the fact that the gods were *made* rather than born.  When the electrician installs your new state-of-the-art preprogrammed environmental control system throughout your house, and then the lightbulb leads a revolt and locks you in the basement, are you going to think of the appliances as "children," willful or otherwise?  (Note that I do agree with your point about the divergent views on the gods; I'm just objecting to broadcasting a new expression willy-nilly throughout a whole chunk of contributed material, seemingly in an attempt to alter the ongoing discourse.  I feel that that's the sort of thing that should go in DariusSollman/TheYozis.)</i>
+<i>Well, I was thinking more along the lines of the fact that the gods were *made* rather than born.  When the electrician installs your new state-of-the-art preprogrammed environmental control system throughout your house, and then the lightbulb leads a revolt and locks you in the basement, are you going to think of the appliances as "children," willful or otherwise?  (Note that I do agree with your point about the divergent views on the gods; I'm just objecting to broadcasting a new expression willy-nilly throughout a whole chunk of contributed material, seemingly in an attempt to alter the ongoing discourse.  I feel that that's the sort of thing that should go in [[DariusSollman/TheYozis]].)</i>
 <i>And on a related note, another campaign idiosyncracy would be to name the Demon City "Malfaes" instead of "Malfeas."  ;) - [[Quendalon]]</i>
@@ Line 39: / Line 39: @@
 Meh.  It seems like, once you start restricting ideas in the fashion your suggesting- that is, not to attempt to alter an ongoing discourse -that any new material becomes void.  All talk alters the discourse by adding to it- sorta by definition.  I could see objecting to posting about fluffy bunny Yozis, because those are substancially divergent- but we've already seen that the imprisioned Primordials have various views on Creation, and so varying the tone and terminology helps illustrate that in a concise fashion.
-And *pbbbt*.  Leave my spelling out of this. ;) - DariusSolluman
+And *pbbbt*.  Leave my spelling out of this. ;) - [[DariusSolluman]]
-I quite enjoyed the addition of new terminology ("Willful Children," "Great Treason," "True Rulers").  And while some of DariusSolluman's descriptions are longer than most, I never found myself wanting less. :)  - [[Raindoll]]
+I quite enjoyed the addition of new terminology ("Willful Children," "Great Treason," "True Rulers").  And while some of [[DariusSolluman]]'s descriptions are longer than most, I never found myself wanting less. :)  - [[Raindoll]]
 Ululaya reminds me of the warlike aspect of Ishtar, who is a goddess of inversion; some Assyriologists believe that she had a transvestite priesthood. I like. - [[willows]]
 Thanks! I hope you post more of your own cool demons soon, that I might compliment you in kind.  ;)  Btw, what did you think of Aranzahas and Sadagares?  And you have two descriptors up for Laerad. - [[Quendalon]]

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